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 PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war

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PostSubject: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:37 am

Ok, things are going well and we'll probably get to stay in 0.0 for a while longer. However, to be able to be worthy of our niche in 0.0 space we need a pvp wing, or at the very least 5 - 10 trained pilots.
To begin this thread in the proper way there are three forms of pvp in general, that are based on the category of ships participating:
1. Small/Medium ships act as a roaming gang, or as support to a large vessel fleet
2. Battleships/Command ships/Battlecruisers, act as snipers or close range combatants. These are the main fleet vessels in an operation.
3. Capitals: Carriers are mainly capital support ships and can assist in taking down a pos or can help in the attack against other capitals, Dreadnoughts are strictly for pos and super-capitals siege (with the possible exception of the Moros that has awesome regular drone bonuses). The term super-capital encompasses the Motherships and Titans. Their role will be covered when and if we ever get one of those Smile

Most of the times in 0.0, small/medium ships are required for roaming ops, to camp or take down the camp of a gate, to hunt aggressors or enemy/neutral carebears, etc. That is why every one of us should train one of his alts for at least one pvp ship of any of the following categories: Interceptor, Recon ship, Inderdictor, Heavy Interdictor, Heavy assault ship, Logistics.
The training is not that hard, especially for smaller vessels and can come in handy in case of battle where you obviously cannot fly a Hulk with any hope of killing the enemy. However, the training should be focused and the relevant skills very high in order to fly these ships successfuly. I recommend that we all take a month off our normal training to learn the art of masterfully flying at least one of them.
I'm willing to assist in the fitting of each and everyone's favourite pvp ship. The fitting should be oriented towards pvp and most of the times it will be fixed (that is, no ad libbing should be allowed). This might take out some of the fun, but believe me these fits have stood the test of time and enemy guns. Anything else is experimenting, that has probably already been done by a thousand seasoned pvpers and failed.
So, as a first step I suggest posting on this thread the type of ship you want to fly, so that in times of need (corp or allies) we can put up a decent wing to participate in operations. This WILL be respected and recognized by our allies, and will certainly make our lives a lot easier in 0.0.

So, post up (we don't need what ships you CAN fly, but what ships you WANT to fly and train for, and WILL have in our hangars for immediate access).

P.S. I know it's only 15 of us right now, but with proper training even a 5-man gang can do serious damage and have tons of fun.
P.S.2 On the plus side, as an industrial corp we will be able to make our ships from scratch and not rely on others for building/equipping them.

Wing so far:
MC: Deimos
Niennor: Cerberus
Blindman: Ares/Taranis or Eris
Duffs: Assault frigate/Ishtar
LeonRedbone: Blackbird (train for a falcon you lazy bum!)
ArchBishop Stealth: Curse
Vilmalith: Vagabond


T1 training wing:
MC: Thorax
Niennor: Caracal
Blindman: Ares
Duffs: Assault frigate
LeonRedbone: Blackbird
Archbishop Stealth: Arbitrator/Omen
Vilmalith: Rupture
I will try and gather the above ships in our hangar in kqk and have them ready and fitted. Make sure your medical clone is in Pure blind and that you have an extra set of +3 (or +4 if you're rich) implants.


Last edited by Niennor Verukoi on Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:34 pm; edited 6 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:09 am

As i allready have all the required training for my wanted class (Heavy assault ships)
I'm putting dibbs on bringing heavy close combat dps in the form of a deimos.

If required i could allso go for the ishkur...

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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:26 am

As a caldari pilot I can bring an interdictor / Heavy interdictor to the game, a Falcon or a Cerberus
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:19 am

Right now I am getting all my skills to bring up my cap as much as it will go, then finish off AF's and then go to HAC's. But for now I have tons of skills to fly interceptors (ares and taranis). Next will be the AF, but really my Taranis does more damage than the AF, its more set up for pvp where as the AF is setup for ratting (its an enyo).

Then Im going to work towards an Eagle HAC Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:38 am

lols i can fly basicly any faction AF but mini, hac and well uhm id like to fly an ishtar lols
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:40 am

oh i forgot the Black ops BS is wat id like to get or a Maruader
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:35 am

Black ops and marauders make terrible pvp ships, mainly because they cost a fortune Smile
Of course you should train for them, but don't do it for their pvp qualities (cause they have none).

Also, all new pilots must learn this: There is a big difference between being able to fly a ship and being able to fly it competently. This means that you can get the skills for the ishtar, but you must also have high navigation skills, hull upgrades IV, High speed maneuvering IV, very high drones skills, propulsion jamming IV and excellent energy skills.
Generally though the ishtar is a good pvp choice.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:55 pm

yea, i used to be in a pirate corp before this one, we used to work in terriost cells, but yes i have those skills already, i mostly flew harpies, but i can fly alot of other combat ships *compitently* and oh i found out i can fly force recons also? Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:35 am

does the eagle make a good pvp ship? Im trying to figure out what I am doing after I train up my assault frigate skills & nav skills. I have propulsion jamming 5, and a lot of 5 and 4 level nav skills, mainly because I trained up to fly interceptors.

Ive got a battleship but never trained up the skills to fly it really good, so I went back to the start and am training up a lot of skills to level 5, then going to cruisers - then battleships or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:24 am

eagle is more of a sniper...
could be usefull to pick down enemy logistics ships...

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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:37 am

yea id def go with tech 2 rails, tech 2 sensor boost, 2 tech *thing that increases range for guns* the skills for faster targeting, longer range targeting and the skills that increase dmg n stuff and ull be doin good, friends n i used to sit on jump gates more than 150km away and we would just nail incoming ships back n the day before the 0k jump in
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:28 am

The eagle is a nice ship, but not for close range roaming ops (only decent for gate camping and that is lame).
If you're going for caldari HACs I definitely suggest the cerberus, since after the speed nerf the heavy missiles/assault missiles have become very powerful.
If you can fly interceptors and have propulsion jamming V, I also suggest learning to fly an inderdictor / heavy interdictor, since those ships are extremely valuable during both small- and large-scale operations. Interdictors, in particular, are also relatively cheap.
We're missing Leon's input and the others', so that we can start organizing small roaming operations and mock battles.
One final thing. I hate to spoil it for everybody but if we're going to have a regular fleet, we HAVE to fly ships with specific setups. Otherwise it will be difficult (if not impossible) to adhere to one strategy or the other.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:17 am

Nah...I have no missile skills at all other than defender missiles.

I have high armor tanking skills, and have some skills in energy weapons as well as hybrid weapons.

I just saw the eagle has very high resistances (90% for everything) and was dishing out around 4-500dps with medium blasters. To my blindeye it looked like it would be a better boat than the Brutix battlecruiser.

Anyways - recommend me something! I may end up training up interdictors since I have interceptors @ level 4 and would only need destroyers to level 5. I just want to get done training up some nav skills and my af skills.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:50 am

Blindman, your frustration echoes my earlier pvp days. I was an uber-tanker when it came to missions, but when I entered pvp gangs I found myself seriously under-skilled for that kind of warfare.
Unfortunately, armor repping is virtually worthless in pvp situations. It is true that if you're operating by yourself, you might need an armor repper, but that will only buy you a minute tops. If they get you webbed and pinned, you will only last longer but will fall in the end. Even in gangs of 5 people, an abaddon with a large repper serves only as bait, since if you can't support the gang and vice versa, you'll eventually fall (first, last, it doesn't matter). The reason most pvp ships have armor or shield buffer is that they save that precious repper cap for other modules (mainly weapons and speed). The abaddon btw can become a terrific buffer tank, with excellent resistances. I will post my abaddon pvp gang setup, that doesn't necessarily require beams (although t2 beams are nice in fleets, I explain why below).
T2 crystals in pulse lasers is the only way to get the same damage with multifrequency crystals and also get the maximum range. The tracking speed penalty is more than covered by tracking computers or tracking enhancers that you can fit cause you don't need reppers. Again, you will see that with the abaddon setup I will post in "PvP Wing, Part 2", you will be able to fit more modules without having to worry about cap.
If we decide to bring battleships into the roaming gang equation, I suggest that we take a logistics ship with us, AND fit a remote repper on the battleships, in the final 8th high slot, so that they can spider-repair each other. It is a viable tactic that can prove difficult to counter, unless the enemy has many e-war ships. Battleship warfare is expensive business though, so I would recommend skipping it altogether for cheaper and more mobile ships (even if you don't have the uber skills for them).
In large fleet setups, battleships serve as snipers, and you cannot be a sniper without beam lasers with T2 aurora crystals. There's really nothing else to be said about that.
As for small ships, I strongly suggest going for the interceptor - interdictor - heavy interdictor family of ships, cause they are simply the spine of the roaming fleet. They're fairly easy to train and will participate in killmails if you fit them with some weapons. Then again, if you really want a damage dealer and have t2 pulses trained already, I suggest going for the zealot (amarr HAC), or even the eagle, although this final ship has proven untrustworthy in close range combat, regardless of its high shield resists. It's slow and will not pack a hard enough punch to make a difference. I've seen it in action though and it may be quite decent.
Finally, don't feel frustrated. Fly whatever you want, just fit it properly cause a gang must be able to support each other. If you can't decide on a fit, discuss it. Then again if you think your fit is the best, we can always run tests and see how it fares. Whatever you decide however, you have to consider the example of the greek phalanx (one of my favorites); If each hoplite had a different weapon or shield type, they would leave the other one's flanks open to attack and the entire column would buckle under the attack. When a link breaks, the chain is lost...
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:42 pm

I'm all in for this.... as for which ship, fucked if I know. Throw out some minmatar suggestions, I currently have a cane and vaga in KQK.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:10 pm

Well since it seems we have plenty of people that can operate interceptors; I'd like to fly a Curse I already have all he pre-reqs and support skills. If needed though I can up my HAC skill and fly a Zealot since i have most of my skills dumped into Gunnery.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:39 pm

I can bring a nice caracal setup, or a Blackbird ECM which I have good skill in. Also, if needed I have a 600dps raven setup, which also tanks 550dps. I would need the ship tho, as my last one got gangraped by nanofags before the patch Smile
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:28 pm

i was there ljmao and lost my harpy >.<
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:07 am

Im pretty sure ill be doing interdictors after I train up a few more skills... but until then I will either bring my Ares interceptor (4.7kms, but it has 1 shitty gun and 1 defender missile launcher), or my Taranis interceptor/gunboat (1.1km/s & 250dps t2 blasters), or my Enyo - but its more setup for ratting in 0.0.

I have a vexor that I could use also, but its just a gunboat, and its not fast at all. I guess I could use it and not care if it got destroyed afro

Lastly, I have a celestis that is setup for sensor disruption *targeting range* and has a target painter - it might be handy if we have a lot of guys with long range weapons and a lot of people in interceptors.
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PostSubject: Re: PvP Wing, Part 1: Prelude to war   Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:14 am

Excellent, excellent!
Vil, the vaga is pure gold for roaming gangs, you stick to it.
Duffs, go for the harpy, or even better, an interceptor.. we're going to need a scout
Arch, the curse is an excellent idea. I'll give you tips on how to fly it and suck 'em all dry (pun intended).
Leon, I know you can fly the blackbird brilliantly, so stick to ecm.
MC, and I will go for the HACs.

The first op will be with t1 frigs and cruisers, to learn each others move and get some training in there. No SiSi stuff, since the conditions there are not real and losing a ship or a pod means squat (hence necessary precautions are seldom adhered to)


*The initial post has been edited so that all can see how the wing is progressing.*
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